[NGFP-BookClub] An Additional Question

Fri, 6 May 2005 08:38:11 +0200

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Dear Students,

I want to try to answer Elie Aharon's question (below), which is, I
think, very important for the course. Actually, there are several
questions here:

1.	Did various interpreters have their own schools and disciples or
scribes?  It might be better to turn this around and say that there were
various groups or schools of thought in the late biblical period, and
that each group had its own interpreters and its own institutions for
transmitting and furthering its views. 

These groups are known to us from different sources: the writings of
Philo and Josephus, certain other Greek sources,  the New Testament, and
various rabbinic writings such as the Mishnah. These sources don't all
speak of the same groups, but the main ones we hear about are the
Pharisees (Hebrew: perushim or, more likely, paroshim), Sadducees (Heb.
Tsedukim), Essenes (Hebrew name unknown), and Boethusians (beitusim or
perhaps beit sin). Each group apparently had its own style of
interpreting the Bible and its own rules and practices. Greek-writing
Jews like Philo or the author of The Wisdom of Solomon don't claim to
belong to any particular school, but their allegorizing way of reading
Scripture certainly sets them apart.

We don't hear about these groups as still operating after the Romans
destroyed the Second Temple in 70 CE. From then on, a single group of
scholars emerge, the founders of what is called rabbinic Judaism. They
generally follow the interpretations of the Pharisees and so are in a
broad sense the continuation of that particular school. Their brand of
Judaism became, simply, Judaism.

2.	How did interpretations get passed on - in synagogue? Or were
some itinerant speakers traveling in a particular region? We don't know
a great deal about what went on in ancient synagogues. Apparently their
first purpose was to be places of study (rather than prayer); no doubt
in such a framework biblical interpretation was a major activity. Even
when they became principally places of prayer, the public reading of
Scripture had, and still has, a prominent role in the synagogue. We hear
about itinerant speakers in the New Testament (Jesus himself) and
elsewhere; sometimes they preached in synagogues. I've always wondered
about the author of Jubilees - was he sitting in some ivory tower, or
did he go around making disciples? No one knows. His book certainly
ended up being very influential - it was one of the most popular in the
library of the Dead Sea Scrolls community.

Speaking of which: that's another milieu for passing on biblical
interpretation. The Dead Sea Scrolls apparently belonged (in part, at
least) to a group of rather odd Jews who lived in an isolated settlement
on the shores of the Dead Sea, south of Jericho. They had their own
interpreters, their own rules of conduct, their own prayers and other
religious practices. Many scholars identify them as belonging to the
larger group known as the Essenes; recently, some people have claimed
they were Sadducees.

3.	I can imagine that a Jewish interpreter with a following, some
funding, and some scribes would be at an advantage. Absolutely. This is
the sad truth that many modern academics know from their own experience:
it's never purely a matter of ideas. A following, some funding, and some
scribes can make all the difference.

4.	Are there distinct differences in interpretation that could be
described as Babylonian? No doubt about it. For a long while after the
destruction of the Temple, Judaism remained centered in the land of
Israel, though its geographic center moved from Jerusalem north, to the
Galilee. But a rival center existed in Babylon, which had a significant
Jewish population, and - largely for external political reasons - the
Babylonian Jews ended up dominatring later Judaism. Thus, there are two
Talmuds, the Eretz-Yisrael ("Jerusalem") Talmud and the Babylonian
Talmud. The latter is much much longer and is the one that ended up
being "the" Talmud. Similarly, the final form of Judaism's standard
prayers is Babylonian.

_____________
James Kugel
11 Efrayim St.
93621 Jerusalem
Israel
Tel. 972 2 672-2197
Fax. 972 2 673-3027
-----Original Message-----
From: ngfp-bookclub-admin@lists.ngfp.org
[mailto:ngfp-bookclub-admin@lists.ngfp.org] On Behalf Of Elie Aharon
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 12:34 AM
To: ngfp-bookclub@lists.ngfp.org
Subject: [NGFP-BookClub] An Additional Question

Dr. Kugel,

I'm wondering about the development of the synagogue at about this same
period, and what impact it may have had on schools of interpretation, or
on various interpreters being included or excluded.

Did various interpreters have their own schools and disciples or
scribes?  Or were some itinerant speakers traveling in a particular
region?  In the transition from an oral to a written tradition, I can
imagine that a Jewish interpreter with a following, some funding, and
some scribes would be at an advantage.

Torah was read thrice weekly... twice in the marketplace and once in
synagogue... did interpretation or other discourse follow the readings?

I'd guess that interpretation and synagogue may have developed together
but under a range of influences, some providing advantage to one
interpreter over another... and this must have occurred similarly in
Babylon.  Are there a distinct differences in interpretation that could
be described as Babylonian?

Elie

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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Dear =
Students,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

I want to try to answer Elie Aharon&#8217;s question (below), which is, I =
think, very
important for the course. Actually, there are several questions =
here:<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<ol style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in' start=3D1 type=3D1>
 <li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'color:blue;mso-list:l3 level1 =
lfo3;tab-stops:list .5in'><u><font
     size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
     Arial;color:windowtext'>Did various interpreters have their
     own&nbsp;schools and disciples or scribes?</span></font></u><font
     color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-family:Arial;color:windowtext'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
     face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'> It =
might be
     better to turn this around and say that there were various groups =
or
     schools of thought in the late biblical period, and that each group =
had
     its own interpreters and its own institutions for transmitting and
     furthering its views. <o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
</ol>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.25in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;
mso-no-proof:yes'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

These groups are known to us from different sources: =
the
writings of Philo and Josephus, certain other Greek sources,&nbsp; the New Testament, and various =
rabbinic
writings such as the Mishnah. These sources don&#8217;t all speak of the =
same
groups, but the main ones we hear about are the Pharisees (Hebrew: =
perushim or,
more likely, paroshim), Sadducees (Heb. Tsedukim), Essenes (Hebrew name
unknown), and Boethusians (beitusim or perhaps beit sin). Each group =
apparently
had its own style of interpreting the Bible and its own rules and =
practices. Greek-writing
Jews like Philo or the author of The Wisdom of Solomon don&#8217;t claim =
to
belong to any particular school, but their allegorizing way of reading
Scripture certainly sets them apart.<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.25in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;
mso-no-proof:yes'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

We don&#8217;t hear about these groups as still =
operating
after the Romans destroyed the =
<st1:place><st1:PlaceName>Second</st1:PlaceName> =
<st1:PlaceType>Temple</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> in 70
CE. From then on, a single group of scholars emerge, the founders of =
what is
called rabbinic Judaism. They generally follow the interpretations of =
the
Pharisees and so are in a broad sense the continuation of that =
particular
school. Their brand of Judaism became, simply, =
Judaism.<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;mso-no-proof:yes'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.25in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;
mso-no-proof:yes'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<ol style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in' start=3D2 type=3D1>
 <li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'color:blue;mso-list:l3 level1 =
lfo3;tab-stops:list .5in'><font
     size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
     Arial;color:windowtext'>How did interpretations get passed on =
&#8211; in
     synagogue? <u>Or were some itinerant speakers traveling in a =
particular
     region?</u></span></font><font face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-family:Arial;
     mso-no-proof:yes'> We don&#8217;t know a great deal about what went =
on in
     ancient synagogues. Apparently their first purpose was to be places =
of
     study (rather than prayer); no doubt in such a framework biblical
     interpretation was a major activity. Even when they became =
principally
     places of prayer, the public reading of Scripture had, and still =
has, a
     prominent role in the synagogue. We hear about itinerant speakers =
in the
     New Testament (Jesus himself) and elsewhere; sometimes they =
preached in
     synagogues. I&#8217;ve always wondered about the author of Jubilees
     &#8211; was he sitting in some ivory tower, or did he go around =
making
     disciples? No one knows. His book certainly ended up being very
     influential &#8211; it was one of the most popular in the library =
of the
     Dead Sea Scrolls community.<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
</ol>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;mso-no-proof:yes'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></font></p>

Speaking of which:
that&#8217;s another milieu for passing on biblical interpretation. The =
Dead
Sea Scrolls apparently belonged (in part, at least) to a group of rather =
odd
Jews who lived in an isolated settlement on the shores of the =
<st1:place>Dead Sea</st1:place>, south of =
<st1:City><st1:place>Jericho</st1:place></st1:City>. They had their =
own
interpreters, their own rules of conduct, their own prayers and other =
religious
practices. Many scholars identify them as belonging to the larger group =
known
as the Essenes; recently, some people have claimed they were =
Sadducees.<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;mso-no-proof:yes'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></font></p>

<ol style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in' start=3D3 type=3D1>
 <li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'color:blue;mso-list:l3 level1 =
lfo3;tab-stops:list .5in'><u><font
     size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
     Arial;color:windowtext'>I can imagine that a Jewish interpreter =
with a
     following, some funding, and some scribes would be at an =
advantage</span></font></u><font
     face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'>. =
Absolutely.
     This is the sad truth that many modern academics know from their =
own
     experience: it&#8217;s never purely a matter of ideas. A following, =
some
     funding, and some scribes can make all the =
difference.<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
</ol>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;mso-no-proof:yes'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;mso-no-proof:yes'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></font></p>

<ol style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in' start=3D4 type=3D1>
 <li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'color:blue;mso-list:l3 level1 =
lfo3;tab-stops:list .5in'><u><font
     size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
     Arial;color:windowtext'>Are there distinct differences in =
interpretation
     that could be described as Babylonian?</span></font></u><font =
color=3Dblack
     face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-family:Arial;color:windowtext'> =
</span></font><font
     face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'>No =
doubt about
     it. For a long while after the destruction of the =
</span></font><st1:City><st1:place><font
       face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'>Temple</span></font></st1:pl=
ace></st1:City><font
     face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'>, =
Judaism
     remained centered in the =
</span></font><st1:place><st1:PlaceType><font
       face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'>land</span></font></st1:Plac=
eType><font
      face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'> =
of </span></font><st1:PlaceName><font
       face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'>Israel</span></font></st1:Pl=
aceName></st1:place><font
     face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'>, =
though its
     geographic center moved from =
</span></font><st1:City><st1:place><font
       face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'>Jerusalem</span></font></st1=
:place></st1:City><font
     face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'> =
north, to the
     </span></font><st1:place><font face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-family:Arial;
      mso-no-proof:yes'>Galilee</span></font></st1:place><font =
face=3DArial><span
     style=3D'font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'>. But a rival center =
existed in
     </span></font><st1:City><st1:place><font face=3DArial><span
       =
style=3D'font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'>Babylon</span></font></st1:p=
lace></st1:City><font
     face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'>, =
which had a
     significant Jewish population, and &#8211; largely for external =
political
     reasons &#8211; the Babylonian Jews ended up dominatring later =
Judaism.
     Thus, there are two Talmuds, the Eretz-Yisrael =
(&#8220;</span></font><st1:City><st1:place><font
       face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'>Jerusalem</span></font></st1=
:place></st1:City><font
     face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'>&#8221;)
     Talmud and the Babylonian Talmud. The latter is much much longer =
and is
     the one that ended up being &#8220;the&#8221; Talmud. Similarly, =
the final
     form of Judaism&#8217;s standard prayers is =
Babylonian.<u><o:p></o:p></u></span></font></li>
</ol>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;mso-no-proof:yes'>_____________</span=
></font><font
color=3Dblue><span =
style=3D'color:blue;mso-no-proof:yes'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><st1:PersonName><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue =
face=3DArial><span
 =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;mso-no-proof:yes'>=
James
 Kugel</span></font></st1:PersonName><font color=3Dblue><span =
style=3D'color:blue;
mso-no-proof:yes'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;mso-no-proof:yes'>11 Efrayim =
St.</span></font><font
color=3Dblue><span =
style=3D'color:blue;mso-no-proof:yes'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;mso-no-proof:yes'>93621 =
Jerusalem</span></font><font
color=3Dblue><span =
style=3D'color:blue;mso-no-proof:yes'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;mso-no-proof:yes'>Israel</span></font=
><font
color=3Dblue><span =
style=3D'color:blue;mso-no-proof:yes'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;mso-no-proof:yes'>Tel. 972 2 =
672-2197</span></font><font
color=3Dblue><span =
style=3D'color:blue;mso-no-proof:yes'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;mso-no-proof:yes'>Fax. 972 2 =
673-3027</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
ngfp-bookclub-admin@lists.ngfp.org =
[mailto:ngfp-bookclub-admin@lists.ngfp.org] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Elie Aharon<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> =
</span></font><st1:date
Month=3D"5" Day=3D"5" Year=3D"2005"><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:
 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Thursday, May 05, =
2005</span></font></st1:date><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> </span></font><st1:time
Hour=3D"0" Minute=3D"34"><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
 font-family:Tahoma'>12:34 AM</span></font></st1:time><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
ngfp-bookclub@lists.ngfp.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [NGFP-BookClub] =
<span
class=3DGramE>An</span> Additional Question</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Dr. =
Kugel,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I'm wondering about the =
development
of the synagogue at about this same period, and what impact it may have =
had on schools
of interpretation, or on various interpreters being included or =
excluded.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Did various interpreters =
have their
own&nbsp;schools and disciples or scribes?&nbsp; Or were some itinerant
speakers traveling in a particular region?&nbsp; In the transition from =
an oral
to a written tradition, I can imagine that a Jewish interpreter with a
following, some funding, and some scribes would be at an =
advantage.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

Torah was read thrice =
weekly...
twice in the marketplace and once in synagogue... did interpretation or =
other
discourse follow the readings?<o:p></o:p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

I'd guess&nbsp;that =
interpretation
and synagogue may have developed together but under a range of =
influences, some
providing advantage to one interpreter over another... and this must =
have
occurred similarly in Babylon.&nbsp;&nbsp;Are there a distinct =
differences in
interpretation that could be described as =
Babylonian?<o:p></o:p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Elie</span></font><o:p></o:p=
></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

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